Maternity matters

Food for thought on medical control in the context of childbirth

Some Thinking Allowed

Aug 17, 2025

Further to this post…

Mothering Sunday: let us not forget...

Some Thinking Allowed

March 28, 2025

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I thought it worth sharing some of this fairly recent podcast featuring surgeon-turned-podcaster Doc Ahmad Malik in discussion with midwife Kemi Johnson:

At the outset, I should add a couple of caveats:

Some of what Kemi Johnson claims, e.g. about what the Old Testament says, is plainly wrong, and Doc Malik rightly pushes back (~32:40-36:00).

And the conversation is, by the participants’ own admission, somewhat sweary.

But such issues are too important to deter me from highlighting the discussion about childbirth which is, when all is said and done, Kemi Johnson’s area of expertise, and one that, directly or indirectly, affects us all. And there is certainly plenty of food for thought in the parts transcribed below (from 46:52 in the podcast).

Birth in hospital

[Doc Malik] Let’s talk about birth… What’s happening in the hospitals now? Is it not safe? Is it just medicalised…?
[Kemi Johnson] The way the system runs is… a budget is assigned — of public funds — to the [maternity] unit, depending on what was used the previous year. So every time we open disposables, every time we get theatre equipment, every time… if theatre is filled with people… every time a bed is used in the antenatal or postpartum… every time a bed is used in the delivery suite… labour ward, that all goes into the budget, and then they apply for the funds.
So… if every family... made the sound choice that you [Doc Malik] made of having a home birth, [the maternity unit] will get paid for the fact that a baby was born with the midwives from their units... But… what about all the money that can be made from the induction? What about all the money that can be made by the baby going to neonatal intensive care? You denied [the maternity unit] that [money] because you had healthy babies in your house.
[You may intend] to give birth somewhere else [than hospital]… choose the birth centre and say, “I’m going to give birth at the birth centre.” [But] are you…? Because if you’re a first time birther, 9 times out of 10 you won’t.
[Doc Malik] My wife is lucky then. [Our first child] was [born] at the birthing unit…
[Kemi Johnson] She’s the 1 in 10… The other nine will go to the labour ward. And then it’s ker-ching! Because once they get to labour ward, using the CTG [cardiotocography machine, used to monitor a baby’s heart rate and a mother’s contractions during labour], hanging IV fluids, opening an episiotomy pack… All of those things… they get paid for. That all goes into the budget…
[And] my intention when I share so openly about this isn’t to deprive maternity services of money. What it’s to do is to enable families to have healthier pregnancies, healthier births, [to] go on to manifest the other aspects of health in life [including] the microbiome… If you’ve got an impaired microbiome, you’re more likely to be getting ear infections. You’re more likely to have more hospital admissions… Can you see how it creates patients for life?
They don’t want people looking after themselves, having healthy guts, and healing themselves at home. You need to go into the hospital for them to be able to apply for the spend. And a lot of money gets wasted. And what they would charge for things is going to be way inflated. And the reason why that happens is because it’s not their money — it’s our money… public funds.

[Doc Malik] It’s the same in orthopaedics… When I was head of the department, I got to go to all these management meetings, and I realised it was all about maintaining the budget. And growing it. No one wanted their budget to get smaller.
And I found that really weird because I thought, “Isn’t it great that we save money?” And it was like, “No, no, we can’t save money.” And sometimes there’d be a panic near the end of the financial year. “We have some money… unspent. We need to find something to spend it on. Because if we don’t spend it, that means next year we’ll have a smaller budget.” And I was like, “Well surely that’s a good thing? If we save money, who cares if the budget is smaller.” And it’s like, “No… you need to maintain the budget or grow the budget.” It’s just a perverse way of thinking, and the reason is, like you just said, it’s not their money — it’s our money…
It also gets a little bit corrupt. I’ve spoken to insiders like Bob Gill and other people, and contractors off the record, and they’ve said basically [the hospital authorities have] got all these Freemason contacts. And they go like, “Right, we’ve got £2 million that we need to spend… who’s a little friend down the corner…? “Oh, can you just build a power unit and dump it on the hospital ground somewhere…” And even though they don’t need it they’ll just put this transformer… [or] whatever there because they need to make up a shortfall of the budget… so they can claim it for next year. [And] their Freemason friend has got a contract… got two million pounds… funny things going on…
[Kemi Johnson] In orthopaedics you might be able to justify it, saying, “Oh well, we’re making people’s lives better. We’re healing them. But in maternity care, in actual fact, if we didn’t get involved in — or didn’t sabotage, I’ll just use the word I usually use… If we didn’t sabotage women in maternity care, they literally could have their babies fall out at home…

Birth at home

[Doc Malik] A lot of people will say to you… “We don’t have the skill and expertise now.” If overnight everybody said, ‘Right, we want to have home births, there isn’t the skill and expertise to do that. It wouldn’t be safe…’”
[Kemi Johnson] What is the skill? I eat cake… drink a cup of tea. Occasionally I might resolve a shoulder dystocia. Very rarely… My stats for people having shoulder dystocia, where the shoulders don’t quite fully rotate… it’s like a key in a lock… my stats [are] about 0.5% because I wouldn’t have a woman… in positions which restrict the pelvic volume to prevent the baby’s shoulders from rotating… The way I work is preventative, but it looks [to the untrained eye] like somebody sat down with a cup of tea and a piece of cake…
The skill isn’t in all the doing. It’s how you hold the space. It’s how the woman is enabled during her pregnancy, knowing she can do it. It’s me saying things like, “Oh, labour started? Why don’t you go to bed… cuddle your man?” So all these low key things… not, “Go charging around your local park to get labour going.” You don’t need to get labour going. It’s an immune response. Your body wants to get rid of the foreign body, which is your baby. And your baby makes itself impalatable. It’s autonomic [i.e. it occurs involuntarily or spontaneously]… It releases a protein… [And] your body goes, “Oh, that’s too much…”
[Doc Malik] Really? I didn’t know the baby released a protein.
[Kemi Johnson] Yeah, it releases a protein in its own circulation [which] crosses through the placenta to the maternal circulation… [And] all the organs coming off it say, “Oh, what’s that? That’s got to go.” And then your breasts prepare. So it’s beautiful. Your cervix prepares, your uterus prepares… oxytocin receptors proliferate. Your brain does the releasing, the pituitary gland... It all click, click, click, clicks… It’s beautiful…
I know it [and] so I facilitate it. So if I’ve stressed the woman out saying, “Oh, you’ve been pregnant five minutes longer than you’re supposed to be,” we’re raising adrenaline for her. Actually, adrenaline does play a small role, but what she really needs is oxytocin. [And] when the oxytocin is being released, what she really needs is the release of endorphins. [And] we know that these things are released in dim light, so we can’t have [bright lights like] your studio. It’s going to need to be candles or no light.
[Doc Malik] That’s what our house was like [when my wife gave birth]. It was very dark. It was beautiful. It was dim, it was dark, it was cosy. We had the fire on, we had the red heat… golden…
[Kemi Johnson] All those colours, they promote the release of oxytocin, which is what she needs for her uterus to contract to get the baby out.

[Doc Malik] Can I say something? I have to be careful because I’m not a woman. So I feel like some people will be like, “How dare you? You’re not qualified to talk about this.” But everything you’ve just talked about, the oxytocin, the love hormones, the relaxation… I think the reason why a lot of women get into a bit of a pickle is because they’re too stressed out. And the reason why they’re stressed out is [that] the system is telling them to be stressed out… TV programs are stressing them out. Every single time you see a pregnant woman on TV it’s... panic… stress… your legs up in stirrups and screaming. And it’s just horrific. So you’re programmed to just think that...
[Kemi Johnson] Do you think that’s accidental?
[Doc Malik] No…
[Kemi Johnson] Our dependence on being saved... by the medicalised maternity system, has been fostered. It’s been groomed into us. And it’s not just maternity care that are participating in this. You’ve got paediatrics. If all the babies came out at home in great health, then what’s the role for the neonatal intensive care unit? How do they get their money? It’s beds being taken by sick babies…
[Doc Malik] But then they’ll say, “Oh, we don’t want that. We don’t want to spend money on all this. We want to save money. We don’t want the beds… we don’t want the neonatal…
[Kemi Johnson] They’re lying…
[Doc Malik] Okay. Right, I’m going to come back to that in a second, but let's go back to the stress business. I just feel like it’s so important to keep the stress under control, but the thing is, if you're in your own home, whoever it is, you know how comfortable it is. The moment you walk through your threshold, put your bag down, take off your jacket, put your keys somewhere and just kick off your shoes and you relax… sigh… You’re in your castle and you can just chillax. You know that. Your home is your castle. If I come to your home, I won’t feel that… because it’s not my home.
When you come to my home, you’ll be like, “Oh, beautiful cottage.” But it’s not your home… So basically, if you’re at home, can you imagine how relaxing that is? It’s your safe space. Contrast that to a hospital. Bright fluorescent LED lights, clinical gowns, odd smells, beeping noises, people constantly coming and measuring you and applying things on you and inserting fingers inside you and probing you. And that’s a form of… rape?
[Kemi Johnson] Well, people hate me using the term. It’s obstetric rape. I use it often in my messaging… it’s rape…
[Doc Malik] Because I never get [why that has to happen]… Again, it’s always a TV program and it goes, “Oh, I just need to examine you and I need to check…”
[Kemi Johnson] So your hand inside… I use the term fisting. I need people to understand what’s happening to them. Yes, it’s fisting. There’s a whole hand up near your cervix… of somebody that you may have only just met. Somebody who might have a mask on. You only can see their eyes…
[Doc Malik] Someone’s going to say, “But isn’t that necessary? That’s needed. That’s because they’re doing their job.
[Kemi Johnson] No, no. As I said, my skill… I have clever hands, but my intention is to not use them. So what do I engage them in instead? Knitting… drinking tea. Afterwards, instead of fussing with the woman, drinking a Prosecco.
I have to say that most people’s belief that the woman requires to be fisted by a stranger in order to have a healthy birth… that’s what’s being groomed into us… Babies come out… How do you know? Because you can see the head there… You don’t need to be fidgeting… measuring… assessing… noting on a graph… It’s all about control… giving the illusion of being needed. It’s not accidental. It’s groomed us.
[Doc Malik] I get it... “The cervix is delayed to two centimetres.” And what does that mean? “It’s now six centimetres.” And…?
[Kemi Johnson] It’s meaningless. The baby’s not coming out until she’s fully dilated.
[Doc Malik] And [when] the baby’s going to come out, it’s going to come out…
[Kemi Johnson] Exactly. What’s the rush? She’s been pregnant for [all those] months. What’s the rush?
[Doc Malik] Okay, but then some people might be like, “Well, we need to monitor it because if there’s a problem, then we can identify it early…”
[Kemi Johnson] No. You can smell a problem. You can see a problem. In actual fact, women will say to me, “I feel a bit stuck.” And then, because I’m trained in birthing biomechanics, I’ll say, “Okay, let’s do some side-lying release…. let’s do forward leaning inversion… give the baby an opportunity to back up and then re-present with its chin tucked in...” There is so much that can be done just by suggestion and actually not setting up a problem.
Setting up a problem… it was measured the other day… [most] women are in a semi-supine position… they call it… which is on your back, right…? [And] we all know [many] of those are because the woman’s having a Caesarean…

Here is the UK government data for deliveries by method of onset over the past ten years or so:

And here is a useful article for anyone wanting to know more about Caesareans:

But the [others]… these women could be on their hands and knees or in a pool or whatever, but they’re not. They’ll be giving birth on their back because the midwives-who-aren’t-really-midwives… they’re more obstetric nurses… are groomed into... only feeling comfortable if the woman’s on her back with her legs in stirrups. It’s called lithotomy position…
Now we know, in lithotomy, you’re closing the pelvic volume down by a third. My colleagues… working in established maternity systems should know that… It’s not a secret. And yet they’re getting 90% of women into that position. Is it not to sabotage…?
[Doc Malik] Maybe it’s just ignorance…
[Kemi Johnson] Sabotage. If you call it ignorance, then, seriously, why are we opening our knees in front of these people if they still don’t know this?
[Doc Malik] I agree… [but] I’ll give an example. A lot of good people just don’t know… I had this beautiful doctor… Cynthia Mackay [NB it’s well worth listening to the podcast at that link if you have ever even contemplated laser eye surgery]… a professor in eye surgery [in the US]… She talks about how LASIK1 eye surgery is quite dangerous. And she talks about how there’s no informed consent. Money drove it. The FDA was corrupt and is enabling it… how any doctor that speaks out gets ridiculed, cancelled, censored…
And then I said to her in the podcast, “It’s very similar to covid vaccines… experimental nature, financial interests, informed consent, coercion, gaslighting of complications, and doctors who speak out get…” And she was very quiet. She didn’t say anything. And I thought, “Right, she doesn’t get the covid vaccines.”
She’s a good egg, though… [And] she emails me later and goes, “Where did you find all the stuff about mRNA vaccines and stuff like that?” I said, “Listen, I’ve spoken to so many scientists, doctors, experts who’ve been cancelled and censored. It’s all on my website… my podcasts…” And her response was, “I’m reading it all now. You’re amazing.”
What I’m trying to say is she’s a good egg. She fell for the vaccines. She didn’t know any better. She was ignorant. But now she’s like, “Oh, what’s this all about?” So what I’m saying… there might be midwives who’ve been brought through the system, trained [and] don’t know any better. And it’s not that they’re sabotaging. They are literally just ignorant. And we need to kind of feel sorry for them and welcome them and say, “Look, there’s a better way…” rather than think they’re all in on it and they’re all trying to sabotage. Because ignorance is huge…
[Kemi Johnson] Childbirth hasn’t changed. Us getting our heads around the covidiocy… the scandemic... That’s something new… bringing… mRNA into a vaccine. That’s something new to get your head around. Babies coming out of vaginas hasn’t changed…
[Doc Malik] True… At my wife’s first birth, she had a tear, and that was at the birthing unit. And we had to go and come back and go and come back… “You’re not dilated enough… blah, blah, blah.” The second and third births [were] at home, and there was no tear… no nothing. But I thought maybe that’s because [it was] the first birth and that’s why it tore… But it’s not. It’s about the stress and the way it’s been done.
[Kemi Johnson] Even… if you go into a unit and you use something called synthetic oxytocin… they’ve done some research and seen that there’s more tension in the perineum if that drug is being used. So that increases the chance of tearing… [And] being on your back increases the chance of tearing… legs lifted into lithotomy increases the chance and severity of tears. Cutting an episiotomy extends into a bigger tear. Placing forceps increases the chance of tearing. Everything that they’re doing… that people expect… that is being normalised in maternity care… causes increased wounding to the woman. If she has a tear that needs suturing, that’s another thing [that was in] the budget… And then she’ll have… PR [per rectum] Voltarol… something up her bum for pain. That increases the budget… For us [as members of the public] it might cost a fiver. [In the NHS] they’ll get charged 30 quid for each one. Do you see? It’s all this money spinning… [but] none of it is necessary.
[Doc Malik] [At the birth of one of my children] the midwife goes, “Mmm… that was a bit difficult at the end… Basically your little boy came out with his arm in the Superman position, so it was a compound presentation…” And I was like, “I thought there was something not quite right, but you were very cool about it. She was like, “There was no point stressing Mama… She was doing a great job…” And… I hugged her… I was like, “You’re awesome. You’re so cool. You exuded confidence.” And I was like, “Everything’s going to be all right.” And she goes, “Because everything was going to be all right…” It was really great having that kind of person…
[Kemi Johnson] Exactly. It was. If you’d had somebody who didn’t have the same confidence, skill and ethos…
[Doc Malik] And experience…
[Kemi Johnson] Then your wife probably would have had some scissors… her perineum… lose more blood... then require suturing… then we’re a bit worried about her blood loss… Shall we go in…? See, it’s that cascade of interventions that we need to avoid, and the person with you in the home is important as well.
So… if you didn’t have that calibre of midwife, but you had someone who’s a bit more panicky… that’s going to mean that there’ll be more money attracted to the maternity unit… There’s many women that are choosing, if they can’t have a competent, wonderful midwife like you had… they’d rather freebirth, because the outcomes will be better in the vast majority of times… because babies are born from women’s vaginas… from the beginning of time.

Modern medicine and mortality rates

[Doc Malik] Yeah, we’re here for a reason… Otherwise we would have gone extinct. But then they say, “Oh, but things can go wrong, and the infant mortality is higher, and maternal mortality is higher. And it used to be historically so high. And now because of modern medicine, it’s low. Can you tell us about that? Because that’s what they say… “Oh, yeah, you can [have a] home birth. And yes, we’re here. But you know what…” (I don’t know what the numbers are but… say…) “10% of people died… that was terrible. We can’t have that. And now it’s so much safer.” What would you say to that?
[Kemi Johnson] So… antibiotics plays a lovely role in maintaining health for mothers and babies. So I give a nod to necessary antibiotics — not prophylaxis. Prophylaxis… [or] just-in-case antibiotics is causing a lot of problems.
But what more lends to birth success is how many people are living in the home. Are the toilets indoor or outdoor? What’s your plumbing like? What’s your general level of nutrition like? And… what they fail to share is that, when they started keeping records, and infant mortality was higher, they weren’t just talking about the babies up to 28 days old, which is the figures we’re looking at… perinatal mortality. They were looking at babies up until a year. So when they quote the higher figure, they’re talking about the babies that then [were] dying of cholera or any of those other things…
[Doc Malik] Okay… what about actual... death at birth… serious complications at birth… at labour. Has that gone down? Was that high… historically… or… is it all just being fudged?
[Kemi Johnson] Serious complications… really serious ones that have randomly happened at birth, are very, very rare… For a woman that’s choosing a spontaneous physiological birth in a community setting or at home, you’ll… find that their chance of their baby not living beyond 28 days is probably 2 in 1000. It’s tiny. Whilst in the unit, you might find it’s 5 in 1000…
[Doc Malik] So perinatal deaths are higher in units?
[Kemi Johnson] When you’re looking at perinatal death, you’re not just looking at the death in pregnancy or during the labour and birth, which is very small. You’re also looking at… the deaths in neonatal intensive care. So when you add all of that together, that’s up to 28 days... So we have a problem at the moment… when you compare it with other countries etc. It’s not glaring. But we do have a problem where we’re not seeing less stillbirth and neonatal death. It was kind of plateauing. But now it’s starting to edge up again… when I looked at the Office of National Statistics the other day for 2023.

Recent ONS data, including the chart below featuring infant deaths, can be found here:

But according to this BMJ article from early 2024, the maternal death rate in the UK has risen to its highest level in 20 years:

[Kemi Johnson] We’ve got an issue where lots more is happening to mothers and babies without saving lives… Everyone’s staring at perinatal death, but no-one’s looking at brain damage… hypoxic injury, HIE [hypoxic ischemic encephalopathy]… No-one’s looking at that. Why? Because the baby’s alive…
We have to accept we’re all obsessing about death because, as a society, we’re not very grown up about the fact that we all die… some people die before they’re born… some people die during birth… some people die shortly after birth. Everyone’s thinking that’s the worst thing, but there will be parents out there looking after babies that were damaged at birth, or shortly after, who are saying, “Yeah, but watching my child suffer every day of their life is also killing me. So I just feel like we need to have grown up conversations about the fact that you going into a hospital for the perception of safety, but coming out with a broken baby… it’s not a good outcome…
[Doc Malik] It’s also the trauma that women go through. They they feel traumatised… I’ve got a friend [who] talks about [it] like it’s proper trauma… She felt violated and traumatised… the whole birthing experience was a painful one for her, and she doesn’t look back and go, “Oh yeah, that was lovely.” And she has to carry that for the rest of her life… and that’s not nice.
[Kemi Johnson] It’s harmful for her, her family, her descendants, her community… her partner, her relationships, her career… But we’re all… sleepwalking into this place [with] the perception of safety, thinking, “They’re going to save me. I’m going to have a live baby.” [But] you all need to know that going into hospital does not reduce the chance of you losing your child by 28 days. And it does increase the chance of your baby having hypoxic injury, brain damage, not being able to swallow, never leaving home, never having a partner… not being able to go to school, not being able to sleep more than two hour stretches. There’s lots to be said [about] this apparent “saving”.
[Doc Malik] I spoke to this obstetrician once, and he was like, “Oh, all these high risk patients, like obese ones, they’ll have their Caesarean sections. And then when they operate on them, they go, “There’s so much fat they have to get through… before they get to the baby.” Sometimes they even… nick the baby in the cheek… And I was like, “What?!”… I just feel like the whole system is just messed up… People are too overweight, too obese…
[Kemi Johnson] But remember, we used to believe, “Why is a woman obese? It’s because she eats too much. It’s because there’s a balance that’s off between movement and what she eats.” But what about all of us that were denied — by the medical profession — breastfeeding? I didn’t taste a bit of breast milk.
[Doc Malik] Me too…
[Kemi Johnson] And I’ve had to manage my health around that my entire life.
[Doc Malik] You think that’s linked to managing obesity?
[Kemi Johnson] Yeah... We know that people that haven’t been breastfed are more likely to be obese and diabetic.
[Doc Malik] Really? I didn’t know that… My parents were brainwashed…
[Kemi Johnson] It was the medical profession. They bound my mother’s breasts [and] said it was dangerous for her to give me a drop of colostrum. And then that sets us up for our own health outcomes.
So the obstetrician that loves to gaslight women and say “It’s because they’re too fat and old...” What we know, when we look at the research around birth outcomes for people that are above [BMI] 35 or 40… is that you’ve got the prejudice of the people caring for them that goes into the outcome.
[But] I don’t care [about a person’s weight]. I’ve looked after a 54-year-old giving birth to her first child. I’ve looked after women with BMI of 45, but I’m just waiting for spontaneous labour. I’ve got a cup of tea. I know I’m skilled at listening to the baby. If she wants me to listen, I know how to do it with adipose tissue. I know how to lift her belly. I know where I’m listening. And then the baby falls out…
In my figures, I don’t have poorer outcomes for people that are above a certain age or above a certain BMI. But if you go into the obstetric system where they’re prejudiced against them, where they do more monitoring or continuous monitoring, or insist they have an epidural, or insist they can’t be in a pool because they’re too fat, then they’re having poorer outcomes. [And then they say], “That’s because she was fat…”
[Doc Malik] We need to turn things around [generally]. [And childbirth is] a nice place to start… Birth is traumatic… as it is for the baby. And if you can just make it a beautiful experience, how nice would that be…?
The other day, my little boy was like, “Daddy, I’m a living room baby.” And… his sister, he goes, “She’s a dining room baby”… He’s got a connection. He knows where he came from. He knows where he was born in this world. He sees it, [and] goes, “Yeah, this is where I entered [the world]”… I was born in some… hospital… but I don’t know the ward… There’s no attachment. There’s no love. There’s no rooting. There’s nothing… How nice would it be to know, “This is where I was born...”
[Kemi Johnson] Yeah. And that used to be the case… apart from nomadic societies… for everyone.
[Doc Malik] But do you not think also, historically, up until relatively recently, you would have this beautiful wisdom and knowledge, this maternal love. You would have the grandmother, the mother, the aunts, the neighbours… all the women there supporting the women going through pregnancy. Now, I’m not saying that the woman who’s going through pregnancy would have [loads of] people around her, but she had access to… could tap into [a lot of wisdom]. And I’m sure [that] in communities… there would have been… three or four women around… and the knowledge… and the bonding.
[Kemi Johnson] Oh, always… they were called godsips, the people that would be milling around a birth, making sure everyone was comfortable... And then that was changed to “gossips”. And then that was tarnished… the idea of a gossip, so that it would break those bonds between women that would support them through these life transitions.
This is why occasionally I’ve said to you, “Do you think that was accidental?” No, it isn’t. We’ve all been groomed. And isolated… One of the worst things a woman feels that she can go through is in the postpartum not having her village. But that’s part of industrialisation, making us into these little nuclear, isolated families…
[Doc Malik] Totally. Compartmentalised…
[Kemi Johnson] It’s so important that we get a lot of time to sit and talk. Women talking is one of the most powerful things that are affecting change…
I honestly feel the covidiocy years woke up [many] people. I think it backfired. I don’t think that was the intention. And so many people looked at that jab and said, “If this one is the best-tested, what does that mean for the childhood jabs?” So we’re having a really big conversation…

It is not necessary to explore very far to realise that, as I noted in the Vaccine safety section of the May 2025 Updates post, very few vaccines have undergone properly conducted long-term, placebo-controlled trials. And that the authorities are withholding data which would show whether or not vaccines really are “life-saving”…

[Kemi Johnson] There’s a book called “Pushed” by Jennifer Block. And she talks about there being some kind of natural disaster… a hurricane or something in a state in the US. And [how] all the hospitals needed to be kept for people that were injured...
So they said to the pregnant women… “Only come in literally if the baby’s hanging out of your body… We don’t need you to be hanging around the hospital. We’re being used for other things.”
And in that time, the midwives noticed that the majority of births were… babies just coming out. The woman waddle in, babies fall out… go home. Yeah. And the midwives are so impressed with that. They said… “We stopped inductions. We stopped having women loitering around the place or… augmenting labour. And birth was spectacular.” But the managers needed to go back to all the unnecessary inductions and antenatal admissions etc. to keep their money up…